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Farm Folk vs City Crew
To start this story, I need to explain a bit about where it happened. My grandfather owned a 150 acre+ forest campground property with over a dozen buildings on the property. These buildings ranged from the common rooms, ceremony hall, barn, 18 different cabins and a few other buildings one might find on the a beautiful campground. This was used as a venue for all sorts of company retreats, wedding events, camps or get aways! Anytime a camp was run that was used horses, my grandpa enlisted the help of the grandkids. He had gotten his fill of screaming and shouting kids or excitedly shrieking women or men who thought they knew best when it came to horses by the time I came along.
One event happened when I was about 11 years old, I was helping out with the Girl Scouts guided tour on one of the trail rides when I noticed the smell was wrong in the air. I had us all turn back while the Den Mother tried to harp on about how I was cutting their trail short. I lied and said one of the horses had a bad limp and we needed to turn back right away. All of the girls were worried about the horse in question and the rider offered to walk next to her horse all the way back. I said he'd be okay but we needed to turn back now.
Well when we made it out of the thick forest trail, where the trees weren't blocking us in, we could see what made me and the horses so uneasy - smoke. Loads of smoke was coming up the mountain, the worst place for a fire to be is under you on the mountain. I knew the property, I'd grown up riding and climbing all over it. I ordered everyone to give their horse their head and let them bolt back to the barn. The barn had a large open arena that was just plain dirt. It would last until we could get them down to the fire station. I let everyone ride hard past me, these girls were barely clinging to their horses and I was worried that someone might fall off if I was completely honest.
Well, we made it back to the arena without any real issues, a lot of the girls were crying. One of my older brothers assured us that everything was alright and told the girls they would be earning a few extra badges today! They'd sign off on them and everything which got the girls to brighten up a lot. Now, the fire hadn't spread too far onto grandpa's property just yet. I knew of the large water tanks, had to join in cleaning them before, but I never understood how exceptional the water tanks really were.
That day I got to see my grandpa's water storage almost choke an entire forest fire. The 5 'small' tanks(30,000 gallons) were accessed at key spots with the fire department. The 3 'Medium' tanks(65,000 gallons) were put onto a sprinkler system that absolutely soaked everything on the property turning it to a thick mud even the gravel and cement pathways were covered in mud!
However, the 2 large tanks (120,000 gallons) were being used with the fire fighting helicopters. To a child, it felt like you were in the middle of the war zone. I was scared as I tried to keep the girl scouts and the horses calm when the fire copters flew overhead to refill at the main large one. By the end of it, the fire was out, the girl scouts got 5 badges ranging from Fire Safety to Leadership and everyone was safe. The Clean up for the fire took two weeks, a lot of pressure washing and a lot of backbreaking labor.
Now, onto the main reason I'm here! To tell the story of petty revenge.
On Grandpa's property there were beautiful trails, a gorgeous vista that had almost no light pollution and plenty of reasons to hike, explore and book us for events. Grandpa was protective of these venues spots because if he allowed people to walk freely, people wouldn't pay for the use of them. So he made sure to follow the letter of the law marking it as private property and would chase people down if they violated it.
One person in town hounded Grandpa for use of the property for free because Grandma attended the Church. She demanded Grandpa give them free use of the property for every book study, every little event. However, she wanted to charge an admission that would go right back into the 'Church' that her husband was one of the pastors to.
To say Grandpa did not enjoy this money grubbing woman was an understatement. He wasn't a Church goer, but to keep the peace with his wife's Church he would host 'free events' once a year or so for this Church's youth. A free event to come up, be fed for a 3 day weekend, interact with the horses, go on trail rides and go fishing in the river or in the big pond on the property. He would host 3 a year for the children in the valley, depending on their age. He would also enlist his kids and grandkid's to help out with the events to save on costs of running them.
Well, after doing this for 5 years, it came out when I went to the Church that she had been charging families almost 300 dollars for the sake of going to the Church. I had gone with my oldest brother who they assumed was my dad and tried to sell him on the event. My brother's face went red and he asked for further confirmation on the dates and the event itself. He agreed to think about it and the woman went on to badger another family. They offered sponsorships that allowed the kids to go up for a discount too. She was squeezing every last penny out of her fellow Church goers.
My brother and I had been there to talk to the head pastor, not this woman's husband, about him visiting our grandmother since she was bedridden due to her old age. Mid sermon though, my brother stood up after whispering to another woman to ask if the one hosting the service was the husband to that woman or not. When she had confirmed that he was, my brother stood up.
This was not our church, no one here knew us. My brother had a voice that could fill up a space while talking at a normal tone so when I heard him suddenly speaking after standing, I was surprised myself. You can imagine the look on over 200 people's faces as a stranger stood up and interrupted a sermon.
Brother: I'm surprised you're able to stand up on that stage and speak of honesty to these people! You and your wife are crooks and thieves! You've been stealing from them for who knows how many events, I'm curious how far down the rabbit hole your theft goes!
Pastor: Excuse me sir! What are you talking about?!
Brother: My grandfather runs the Horse Camp all the kids are attending this coming weekend. He's never charged any of the kids or their families a CENT for using it. He knows how hard it is to attend fancy camps, he had to pay for all of his kids! He hated having to come up with so much money all the time! He hosts a free event for the kids, his grandkids help him run the event! I should know, I'm the Stablemaster during the event!
You could have heard a pin drop, the pastor's face turned a few shades of red and then a woman stood up a few rows back from us.
Woman: What do you mean, he doesn't charge?
This woman looked ready to breathe fire and I noticed this woman had 5 children with her. She looked ready to start a riot as my brother nodded.
Brother: My granddad knew first hand how hard it was to come up with funds and how much going to different places affected his kids and helped them grow. He pays for their food, he let's them use the horses, has his family teach them about horses and, hey Daniel. Remember me?
One of the older kids had been staring at my brother from this woman as he confirmed that my brother worked at the event.
Everything broke out into screaming and shouting at that point and it took us hours to sort everything out. The pastor's wife had gone 'missing' during this screaming match. It came to light the pastor thought his wife, who headed the organization, would give all the funds off to my grandpa. She never put them into the Church even!
Things got a little crazy as everyone realized she was gone and the weight of the scam she'd pulled off on them. Each event hosted around 20 to 25 children. People would donate money to help get the kids of families with less funds there too, so we're not sure how much under the table money was given for that goal BUT
We do have an estimate on how much she got away with. $105,000 was the estimated she got away with before vanishing into the night. To say it was confusing was an understatement for me. I just wanted to go back home and keep an eye on the horses.
My oldest brother's fury was nothing compared to anger my Grandpa felt. He was so angry about all of it and only allowed the head pastor to come up and visit his wife, no one else. He was bitter but at his wife's request, he wouldn't let his bitterness affect the kids.
We hosted the events as planned and Grandpa's bitterness grew as we went from having 25 as our max to almost 50 per session. Every bed was filled in the camp beds, every bunk stuffed and all of our hearts felt raw. I was a kid and I felt cheated, but I refused to let that show trying to follow Grandpa's example. I failed miserably a few times, I'm sure of that, but I did try!
Well, now we're on to the revenge part of the story. All of the above happened in the lovely era of 'Internet is a thing! How new!' Grandpa had his venue listed in the Yellowpages, if that dates us at all!
I had turned 20 and Grandma's health which had been in steady decline over the past few years had really crashed hard. Her end was getting close. Grandpa asked me to help with her and the events going on because he was in no way ready to visit with people at all. So I balanced taking care of her needs and Grandpa's needs with running the venue through the booked events. On the website we had, I removed all the information and wrote a message that stated 'Due to current conditions, only previously booked events are on the schedule. Thank you. We'll be up and running again after the events conclude.'
It was the nicest way I could think to put 'My Grandparents aren't able to handle people at the moment, please leave us all alone.' Well, while in with the pastor in town after tending to things for almost 5 months, my truck broke down. Unfortunately for me, the auto shop needed a part from another city and it would take a few days to get there. I asked a family member if he could tow me to the shop over there and he offered to have his wife drop off their car so I could get back to work with Grandma and he'd take care of my truck. I politely refused, I desperately needed a break. Even just a ride to another town 30 minutes away would get me away from the suffocating feeling with them.
They agreed and took me over to get my truck fixed. Now, the shop owner said it would be about 3 hours to fix it and I could wander around town. I told my family member I was good, he could head out and I'd call if I needed more help. He gave me a hug and told the auto shop he'd pay for the repair. I needed a break and I appreciated that. Family helps family is our family creed.
So I got to wander around a town I never really got to, trying to find a good place to get some food for lunch. When I made it to a restaurant, I noticed a very well made flyer in a window. It talked about an upcoming meteor shower and how beautiful it was going to be. It reminded one about how the next town over's light pollution was going to eclipse the beauty of God's sparkling show. It talked about an event being held up on the mountain, where parking would be $20 for a breathtaking view of the sky, weather permitting.
I smiled a little as I read the flyer and then did a double take. The flyer was boasting about a certain vista. A vista only available on grandpa's land. I wrote down all the info on the flyer and told myself I would call as soon as possible. I went in to the shop to get food and wondered if I'd messed up and completely forgotten an event or not.
Well, turned out I hadn't when I got home and double checked everything. We had parking for maybe 40 cars max, so I was curious where the cars would be parked. I decided to call with an out of state cell phone, thanks to an Uncle and Aunt who were visiting Grandma when I got back with my truck.
Host: Hi, how can I help you?
Me: Hi! I found your flyer! Oh my gosh it sounds like SOOO much fun! I mean, the stars in town are like, 1000% better than anything in my area! Are they really so pretty up on the mountain?
Host: Oh yes! It's one of the best places to watch the stars in our area! It's going to be absolutely beautiful!
Me: But like. I'm worried about how many people are going to be going? Uhmm, like, parking us, my car's not going to like, I don't know, end up with dirt on it is it?
Host: Oh! No worries about that, we have premium parking for $40 but the $20 is parking in a pasture!
Me: The entrance fee is by car, do we need like, another type of fee?
Host: Oh yes, a 5 dollar fee per person will also be needed. Make sure to bring cash for parking and your entrance fees! We'll have food carts too!
I was shaking at this point in anger at this woman. I had checked the schedule and I knew no event was going to be happening. The camp ground had been abandoned a bit, all of the horses moved to my cousin's place at the base of the mountain and I was taking care of Grandma and Grandpa at their cabin on another property on the same mountain. Closer to the hospital and all.
Me: Alright! I'll be there! Thanks SOO much!!
I hung up after the good byes and started to shake in anger. I knew the property was closed down and we'd had issues with someone breaking into the property. I had been trying my best to manage the events, the venue and Grandma and Grandpa. I had.
She had mentioned that a pasture would be parking for everyone and I wondered which one it would be. Then I realized, it was time for the soil to be tilled and smoothed for the horses. I also realized something that I could do that would be... wonderfully evil.
I asked my visiting family if they wouldn't mind keeping an eye on Grandma and Grandpa and I sped off to visit a family member. This particular man had married one of Grandma and Grandpa's daughters and adored the family and worked as part of the Fire Department for our area. I came in with all the information I had and told him my plan. I signed the documents and he put the information away at the back of a drawer and gave me the okay to go with my plan.
I tilled the pastures. All of them. I churned up the dirt and then smoothed it out. Making it look like such an inviting slab of land to park on. I then left all of the gates WIDE open. I didn't want anyone breaking locks and I knew this was going to happen one way or another. Now, if you've ever tilled the soil you know the ground is soft! That's what plants need in order to grow! Hard soil will kill your plants almost as fast as over watering or crows.
The day before the event, I was in the main parlor getting some water when I noticed a car coming up. They sped up and who stepped out but the Pastor's wife I'd seen all those years ago and another woman from the same church. It dawned on me then that this was a con they were using and I wondered how many times they'd used the campgrounds before. I saw red.
I hid and watched as they knocked on doors, checked all over the place for any signs of life and then started to talk excitedly as they sped off. I made sure my Grandparents were well looked after as I kept lurking in the Campgrounds and waiting. They came back the next day, the day of the event and brought a line of porter pots, a hand washing station and a few food vendors that got set up. They turned on the foot lights to the wedding vista and I felt my blood just about boil.
I could have called the cops then for trespass but I had a much bigger plan in my mind for these nasty women. I waited. I waited until I saw cars lining the pastures, 3 pastures worth of cars, the driveway crammed so tight with cars that I was amazed at how many fit. The gravel drive was even being used and so was the cement area by the barn.
I hadn't realized how *big* this event was really going to be and instantly started to worry about my plan. There were so many people! But I had followed the letter of the law with help from my family. I had posted the private property and the closed for maintenance signs up all over the place. I was so nervous as I saw so many people going up the path but resolved that my plan was fool proof. When the food vendors turned off their lights, I knew it was time. Everyone was blocked in and up at the vista. I started with the pastures. That lovely soil plus the sprinkler system quickly became a muddy sink hold that stuck all the cars up to the tires or doors.
I went all out. I turned on every fire sprinkler on the property. I knew the vista was getting a proper soaking too. Everything was. I had started with the pastures first and with sprinklers that could douse a fire, it did everything I remembered as a child. It flooded the pastures, it made the drive ways impassable, it washed out part of the road for anything other than off roading trucks or vehicles. With over 100 cars in the pastures, I was gleeful as I heard people coming down the path. I shut off the sprinklers after '10 minutes' while everyone tried to figure out what was going on.
People were calling the police, emergency services, screaming and confusion everywhere. The two women's car I had taken great delight in letting the air out of the tires and adding extra water under. The car was sunk pretty deep. Well, my work was done. I hiked out and down the hill and left to go back into town.
The Police made it up by the time I'd already gotten back to Grandma and Grandpa's place. I was found there and family vouched that I had been there the entire night when the Police showed up. I explained to the Police I wouldn't be caught up on the Campground tonight, especially not with a Fire Safety test going on. We were to test the water tanks pressure by running them on an automatic timer for 10 minutes and them measuring the water missing from the tanks in a few days when things settled and were passable.
They wanted to know about the event and we said we weren't hosting any events at all, why would we when we'd told the Police department almost a month prior, the Campground was closed until further notice!
The two women who had hosted the event, were caught and charged with Trespass and a whole mess of other things including Reckless endangerment. The Fireman produced the permit too, to test the Fire Tanks, after all, they were paramount to the running of the Fire Department. They had two helicopters that would fill at those stations after all and they needed to make sure that each pump could push out 100 gallons per minute after all!
The women had to pay for tow services, damage the towing caused to the property, hotels and inns for the people who were stranded and didn't have someone else to come pick them up and a ton of legal fees. The woman from the church had been wanted for her previous crimes and had been living at this woman's house helping her to run similar scams all over the country by using 'out of season abandoned properties' for their scams. I don't have too much information on the end of it all, because unfortunately at the time it was wrapping up, Grandma passed away. I do know that all profits from the scams had been sunk into fixing the damages and repaying for the crimes. It cost a lot to dig out the cars that got stuck in the mud!
I hope you all enjoyed my tale of revenge. I did not expect it to be so long to write up, but then when I tell the story to family and friends they all know the campgrounds so I don't have to go into that...
TLDR: Women try to take advantage of seasonal Campground closures. Get caught and all profits sunk in the mud.
https://youtu.be/CB74xRALBMw <---- Give this wonderful channel a listen! They read out the whole story! Thank you so much!
https://youtu.be/ByID4Tb0hfs <----- Give this one a watch too! Another person read the story for you to enjoy!
I can't believe people are reading the story and posting it to other places. I hope the rest of the family stories are also enjoyed.
[Firearms] Can you use epoxy to modify firearms? Contentious question strikes into heavily primed forum, with impassioned responses quickly filling the chamber, propelling insults and machismo in all directions.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 in the United States means that a firearm may only be imported into the country under specific circumstances, which range from “scientific testing or research” , the import of an “unserviceable firearm” as a museum / collector’s piece, or “if the firearms or ammunition are of a type generally recognized as particularly suitable or adaptable to ‘sporting purposes.’”
The vast majority of civilian imported firearms fall under that latter category. The effects of this legislation are vital to understand the background to this drama. The Kalashnikov manufacturers Saiga Izhmash and Molot Machine Building Plant looked to take advantage of the large consumer firearm market in the United States, and produced a small sampling of Kalashnikov rifles and shotguns for export. These are the aforementioned Saiga and VEPR AKs.
In order to abide by import laws as “generally recognized as particularly suitable or adaptable to sporting purposes” a few key modifications were made. The ATF considers high capacity magazines to be contradictory to a rifle “suitable or adaptable to sporting purposes” and rather more indicative of the arm in question being an “assault style rifle” which cannot be imported. As a result, these Russian export rifles were manufactured with a specific magazine well and catch, such that they would not accept standard 30round AK magazines and instead used proprietary 5 or 10 round designs. This was done by extending the receiver’s magazine catch, so that the rear lug of the 30 round magazines won’t lock in place. Most importantly, the Saiga and VEPR do not have a bullet guide on their trunnions.
So how do the SAIGA and VEPR rifles operate without a bullet guide? Well, the extended magazine catch means that the small-capacity proprietary magazines are inserted slightly deeper into the receiver, reducing the height of the “cliff” the bullet needs to ramp over. This in combination with the integrated bullet guide in these small proprietary magazines means the SAIGA and VEPR can reliably feed from the OEM magazine, but not from a standard high-capacity AK magazine. The limit to 5 and 10 round magazines thus allows the ATF to “generally recognize [VEPR and SAIGA AKs] as particularly suitable or adaptable to sporting purposes.”
Naturally, a lot of gun owners think it’s worthwhile to modify their SAIGA or VEPR rifles by filing down the magazine catch, and inserting a bullet guide on the trunnion, allowing the rifles to accept standard high-capacity AK magazines. Why limit yourself to 10 rounds when you can make slight changes and fire 30? We can see a successfully installed bullet guide here. Here’s how it looks with the magazine inserted.. These are very common, near-compulsory modifications found on the Saiga and VEPR AKs.
What’s the best way to attach this bullet guide? Well, that’s where the drama begins.
Glued to your seats: The Drama Begins
O.K. so I have done a little research and this is what I have come up with. I have ordered my bullet guide from Dinzag arms. I like to get my stuff from Carolina Shooter's Supply but they did not have the flat guide for the 7.62x39. I also have looked into a product I am sure some of you have heard of called J.B. Weld, I bought mine at a local Home Depot and paid like 5 bucks for it. Now I have tested it by "welding" two screws together with it. I could not break them apart after letting it sit overnight until I cut them apart using my Dremel. SO I have decided when I get my bullet guide in from Dinzag Arms I am going to install it using nothing but J.B. Weld then I am going to let it sit for 24 hours then I am going to take it to the range and torture it and see how well it goes. Please respond to my post if anyone is interested in seeing a video of it being installed and also the video of me testing it at the range and video of the internals before and after. If no one replies or shows interest then I will not waste time recording any of it. I should be receiving my guide sometime next week and I will go from there.The suggestion of using an epoxy to affix a small but important piece for the reliable operation of the rifle meets with mixed reviews. The majority of early comments are gentle advisements against using JB Weld, in favor of the traditional drill + screw.
Imo, it’s a bad idea to use JB Weld to attach gun parts, more especially when they’re part of the weapon’s action. There’s a reason that people use a screw/rivet for this job.There’s even one comment giving advice on best practice to go through with JB Weld, though they still recommend a screw.
Use break [sic] cleaner or similar to thoroughly degrease both surfaces so the adhesive can stick. If the JB doesn’t work out a tap and a bit are about $5 the screw a few cents.Things begin to escalate rather quickly however, once more experienced forum members, one of which is a licensed FFL / gunsmith, curtly shuts down the epoxy suggestion.
JB Weld is great stuff and has its place, but (IMHO) holding together parts of the weapons action is not an appropriate use. The compound can and WILL break loose, and you DON'T want this to happen while you are cycling live ammo.A user named Stansplace who will prominently feature in the upcoming drama makes his first comment here, repudiating the suggestion to glue your firearm together. He gives some advice to deal with the anxiety of drilling a hole in your gun instead.
JB Weld is one of those things that sounds like a good idea in this application, but down the road when you gain confidence and experience, you look back on and say DOH! Why did I do that. Most people are a little intimidated by drilling and tapping a gun, but all it really takes is a little patience. If you go slow and keep your heart rate under 75 you will have no problems. If you find your heart rate going up and you break a sweat, STOP. Calm down and then go fiddle with it some more.Another user, KlassyKalashnikov comes in to spice up the forum by pointing out that while JB Weld probably isn’t a good idea for a firearm, it can be used to bond your TV remotes together so you won’t lose them!
Yeah one more vote against JB weld. It's good stuff but I wouldn't want to hold my bullet guide on with it. Especially since to drill and tap only takes a couple mins and is very easy to do. It's not a total loss of $5 though. There's a million other good uses for JB Weld. Just the other day, I used JB Weld to make sure I'd never lose my TV remote again. The connected remotes are later posted in a second comment.This sparks a heavily ironic sub-thread.
In case I somehow lose this monster of a remote, I’ll probably JB the damn thing to the nightstand.With an established consensus that using an epoxy to modify your firearm is a bad idea, Mossberg Man returns to update everyone on his decision to tap and drill the bullet guide.
If you read their packaging there's even a testimonial on how it patched a cracked engine block. (And the engine had 10% more horsepower and 15% better gas mileage after the repair.) And to put the icing on the cake, it's made right here in the Lone Star State. You know, Texans never lie.
That's nothing! Using JB weld and a dremel, I filled two cavities in my teeth! Ok, maybe not
Well this is why I used this forum for feedback before going forward with anything. I want everyone to know that based on the minimal feedback I received based on my topic (laughing as I am typing) I will move forward with the tapping of the receiver. Thank you everyone for all of the input.Wait- That’s it? Just a few comments, some gentle ribbing, and the epoxy is anticlimactically off the table? Well, not quite.
Epoxy Stans enter the pictureSure, many people pointed out that an epoxy designed to glue a variety of materials together may not be suitable so near the chamber of a firearm, but a couple users aren’t going to drop it that easily.
Eclipsing perhaps even Mossberg Man as the centerpiece of this decade-old shit-flinging is the user Rhodes1968. He enters the picture not only defending JB Weld, but claiming it holds up better than the rifle itself in extended testing.
What like no one has ever seen a screw come loose?A perhaps appropriately-named user, SaigaNoobie, jumps in to reinforce this new bulwark for JB Weld. He argues that there is actually very little force acting on the guide.
I knew this argument was coming again damit.
Took her out again Sunday now have about 2500 rounds over that JB welded bullet guide. The only thing Im noticing is the metal wears a bit faster than the JB. Now yes I did it correctly and took my time but if a little screw threaded though a thin piece of stamped receiver works so will JB.
Hell tick everyone off and put JB on the screw threads and then weld the sucker on there. There is so little stress on this part I cant believe its even an issue. Do yourself a favor no matter what you do and slightly polish that edge the rounds contact, it doesn't need to be sharp and has been the ONLY problem Ive heard of after getting the guide installed.
PS: One unexpected benefit to the JB I wasn't planning on. If you are using Corrosive mil-surp ammo the JB seals the bottom of the guide much better than metal to metal preventing any salts from getting under the guide and yes those are very small particles. Just a small little detail.
The bullet guide slides under the barrel preventing it from lifting out. It also slides up next to the barrel, preventing movement towards the chamber (in the same direction as the bullet). The only thing the screw does is prevent the thing from moving REARWARD. Now, what forces are acting on the bullet guide in the rearward position? Recoil. That's it. Recoil.Mossberg Man sees these two testimonials for JB Weld and disregards all previous criticism. He abandons his appeasement of the masses and full-commits to the epoxy.
JB Weld + 2,000 rounds of 5.45x39. No issues. Not saying it's the right way, but I'm saying, it's MY right way.
Well after the two posts confirming JB weld works I am sorry to say everyone but I have to go for it now, so I will post some pics of how I do it and then post some vids of how the first range test goes. I am going to stick with my gut instinct on this one. Maybe I will start a new thread just for JB's that have worked who knows...lol This goes over about as expected.Stansplace is very much not amused.
Mossberg Man brings out some cheeky banter, re-appropriating Stansplace’s own profile picture to spit back at him.
Well as a well known member of this forum put it best.....Thanks Stansplace! No offense to anyone I am just standing my ground. I will let everyone know how it goes, and thank you all for making my initiation into this forum a great one. I am looking forward to many more debates with everyone here. It is nice to meet a group of people who are like me and are willing to stand their ground and voice their opinion, let the sheep gather elsewhere!!...lolThis actually goes surprisingly well, and Machismo recognizes Machismo.
Yep, that is pretty much my opinion too. I love it! I also like it when a man walks his own path, even if he is wrong. I have been there and done that. Good luck.Sensing too much agreement and tranquility, Rhodes returns to stir the pot, and much fun is had.
Stansplace I knew if anyone here would understand you would!...lol Like I said thank you to all who have posted I will certainly post updates as I move forward with my unorthodox conversion!!
Dang guys hes not going to put the whole rifle together with it just a bullet guide that might possibly be held in place with bubble gum.Klassy Kalashnikov returns to show off his new “tactical home defense shotgun” with a D.U.C.T mounting system.
Oh shit bubble gum I never even thought of that!! Forget threading the barrel (found out today mine is not threaded) I will chew a bunch of Hubba bubba and then jam it into the muzzlebreak and jam it on the end I figure the first round will clear out any residual gum still in the barrel...Rhodes thanks for the tip you are the man!! LOL
Remember, use the Red Hubba bubba for permanent, blue or green for temporary bond...
And don't forget that low viscosity Green Hubba Bubba will penetrate into existing assembled threads. So if you want, you can smear it all over your rifle.
Hey guys check out this sweet new tactical home defense shotgun. It has the all new, top of the line, military grade D.U.C.T. mounting system which attaches everything from bayonets, to flashlights, to extra rounds, even an extra gun.Others pounce at the chance to prolong the engagement.
Better Idea, just make the bullet guide from JB Weld… duh. Who needs a bullet guide just a glob of JB will do…. __ Yes. JB Weld. Who needs steel. Why not save a few bucks and fashion the entire gun from JB Weld? __ Or you could just make the whole rifle out of JB Weld.Sensing that the memes and levity are drowning out the very serious advice about using epoxy to keep a bullet guide in place, another user joins the fray to share some VERY NOT SUBTLE racist implications about what type of people would install a bullet guide with epoxy.
Its still Ghetto no matter how many excuses you make.....it would actually be less work to just put the real bullet guide in..... edited redneck for "ghetto" because I dont even think a redneck would do that.Mossberg Man is insistent on going through with the epoxy installation, and lets the forum know that he’ll be picking up his bullet guide soon.
One user suggests Mossberg Man forego his seatbelt on the drive to the Post Office.
Sure! And when you drive to the post office to pick it up, make sure you don't wear a seat belt.It seems that despite the disagreement, detractors are agreeing to disagree with Mossberg, and wish him best of luck. Another rather anti-climactic conclusion to this debate.
Has the drama subsided? No, Not even close.
What does a screw do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver. What does JB Weld do? Holds the Bullet guide down onto the receiver.This equivalency is not taken at face value, and the user BobAsh starts getting dragged into the mud.
Either this statement it intended to be ironic, or you don't really have a concept of the forces that are in play in this dynamic system.SaigaNoobie finds some support in the comments, and goes on the offensive against this childish notion that a screw is any more secure than epoxy.
With so much doubt surrounding the capability of JB weld I am starting to want to see some evidence supporting the claims that JB weld is not up to the very, very simple task of holding one piece of metal to another piece of metal while a relatively small amount of force is going to be applied directly to that piece of metal. The same job that we are trusting a very small screw to do instead- a screw small enough that everyone would probably break it if it used a bolt head instead of an allen head.Our friend Rhodes returns yet again to drop 3 comments in succession defending JB Weld.. In fact, it may be even better than a screw.
in 1.6mm sheet metal too! That's what? 2 or 3 threads at the most? PSH.
Enlighten me Bob
As far as I can tell all the forces on chambering are towards the barrel (Which the BG can't move in that direction because it's touching the barrel already) and all the forces on recoil are rearward, which, actually the BG would resist the recoil pulse, thus wanting to move forward again. IN fact, I'm thinking you don't need much to hold a BG in place. Maybe some double-sided tape?
Nothing wants the BG to move backwards. All the forces are down and forward and it can't move in that direction at all.
I don't see the issue.
Exactly why I use the JB, its better than a screw since the adhesion is distributed across a much larger surface. This thing comes up about every few months and always goes exactly like this one. Rivet is better than a screw also. The only thing with substances like JB is that you just cant be sloppy because they call it weld for a good reason.BobAsh can’t stand by and watch as people share their theories on modifying firearms with glue; proceeds to flex his STEM knowledge on the glue crew.
Here's the thing; I have a degree in mechanical engineering so maybe it's more obvious to me than it is to you. I'd say the biggest hurdles in this design are the thermal issues (not it's heat resistance as previously mentioned...expansion coefficient problems are hard on bond joints) and the high number of cycles.LoneStarArms, the licensed FFL and gunsmith from early in the thread returns days later, trying to ELI5 why an epoxy made for general applications may not be up to standard needed for applications in the action of a firearm.
OK. Can't stand it anymore. It isn't necessarily heat which overcomes the elasticity of epoxy resin compounds like "JB Weld", it is the rapid expansion and contraction characteristics of the surrounding materials being very different from the composite material "JB Weld" which stresses, and ultimately defeats the molecular bond or "weld". It does not expand - contract - move at a similar rate and the stress causes failure (see "Haiti" - "Concrete" - "Earthquake" - Wikipedia).After 4 days of constant drama and bickering over how to secure the bullet guide, the OP Mossberg Man returns with a new much less contentious question. This quickly snuffs out the embers of the seemingly-inexhaustible controversy. Mossberg Man’s new inquiries about barrel length and muzzle brake modifications are duly answered, and the drama dies… until a few weeks later.
The last gasps
I know this thread is past it a bit, but it got me worryng about bullet guides (with and without screws).. If the screw backs out and the guide comes up.. won't the gun just jam? Couple of people here seemed to think a bullet guide coming loose was a recipe for imminent doom.. Just wondering since yall have me worried everytime I shoot now.Our persistent expoxy-stan Rhodes swoops in to the convulsing remains of the drama and breathes in new life, listing a variety of issues more concerning than a loose bullet guide, and hyperbolically claiming you may as well glue the bullet guide with nail polish.
Hell use use nail polish for all the stress that gets placed on that guide. Please note the exaggeration here...Users take the opportunity to joke about Soviet purists demanding only the best Com-Bloc nail polish to secure their bullet guides. The OP Mossberg Man makes a reappearance to share their favorite nail polish glue color and update everyone on the success of their bullet guide secured with JB weld.
I have always been fond of the cold gulash color myself. Also one final note just to make the purists crazy!! I did mine with nothing but JB Weld let it set overnight and to this day I have put about 200 rounds over it. So there....lolA now-banned user, Shades_of_grey is not amused at Mossberg Man’s contentedness with his bullet guide. He wants everyone to know that he did it the right way.
200 rounds ain't shit. You haven't really tested it yet.Rhodes is luckily still around to put Shades in his place, bragging that his JB Weld bullet guide has survived over 2,500 rounds.
I'm what you might call a purist.. to a point anyway. Yeah, my bullet guide is rivetted in, (the same way it's attached at the factory), and yeah, I have just a little more faith in this method of attachment than muhfuckin JB Weld.
Let us know how that shit's holdin up at about the 2.5-3k round mark, Mossberg.
Pretty well brother just keeps on feeding way over 2.5k rounds judging from the ammo Ive had to replace. Some wear on the upper portion of the guide that indicates a downward force which of course is cool and since I polished the lead edge of the guide first that is doing wonderfully well. But hey I just like tweaking convention.
Over 2 years later…
I'm up Sh*ts Creek on this one......Users recommend simply shattering the Tap to remove it, with some sharing that they proceeded to JB Weld their bullet guides in, after their failures with the drill and tap method.
Finished a full 922 conversion on mine and last step was the bullet guide. Got through the trunnion with the tap and on the very last rotation i was making I went just past an 8th of a turn and snap. Tap cracked right off in the trunnion.
I am with the others on here that have used JB Weld. That was not my first choice, as I broke the tap off as well. I realize it is not the "best option", but mine is holding up just fine.As though he has an alert set up just to evangelize JB Weld for bullet guides, Rhodes returns again to confidently share his continued success with epoxy.
Same here. Broke the tap in my 5.45, JB'd it in. It's held up for 250 rounds so far. I'm going to get it tack welded in though, just to be safe.
how long has your BG been JB'd on, Semper?
Im thinking about JB'ing my BG on too... all the numbers i have seen regarding its performance seem to put it well within the operational tolerances for that particular area in the rifle.
4k rounds through a BG held with JB. Guy that bought it hasnt had an issue either. For that part JB may be even better than a screw. Just have to do the job right. Some people have used both.
SummaryDue to importation laws, a selection of desirable AK47-pattern rifles require aftermarket modifications to accept and feed from standard high-capacity AK magazines. While these modifications are quite simple and require just filing down a magazine catch lever, and the insertion of a bullet guide in the trunnion, the methods of doing this are contentious.
Many people are drawn strongly to the convenience and simplicity of using an epoxy to glue down these guides, while others are horrified at the possible dangers of the glue failing. Even further, there are elitists, self-satisfied with riveting their bullet guides, like the factory does, thank you very much.
In all, there is drama to milk for weeks and even years in this divide in the firearm modification community. Happily, despite their differences, the Saiga / VEPR community is held together through mutual respect as strongly as JB Weld can hold a bullet guide.